Is the world real or unreal?That is the question that is being raised by Michael for Subbu. I agree with Subbu’s answer. But here I am presenting two of the five definitions of falsity that Shree Madhusudana presents defending previous aachaaryas’ positions.

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Shankara in his adhyaasa bhaaShya uses the world mithyaa for the world- In his commentary of ManDukya kaarika, he makes a statement – I see it therefore it is false – dRisyatvaat while the dvaitic position is I see it therefore it is real – dRisyatvaat, where pratyaksha pramaaNa or direct perception is given importance for reality. In his commentary on Shankara bhaaShya, Padmapaada defines the mithyaa as – anirvacaniiyam, unexplainable, in the sense that we cannot say it exists and we cannot say it does not exits. This forms the first definition of falsity that dvaitins in NyaayamRita criticize using Navya Nyaaya arguments. Some of the arguments of Michael are not different from Purvapakshi presented in the text and these have been treated exhaustively by our aachaaryaas. I am planning to write these arguments and counter arguments later. I request Shree Sastriji also to present the Advaita Siddhi’s arguments in the order discussed for the benefit of others. Anand Hudli has done some.The question is what is this world?

Advaita answer is it is neither real nor unreal or mithyaa. Purvapakshi presents – What is mithyaa? In countering the definition given the argument is that what is not sat or real, it should be asat, unreal; and what is not asat, unreal, it should be sat. It should be one or the other and you cannot have both real and unreal in the same locus – That is the essence argument of puurvapakshi saying that mutually opposing qualities of sat and asat locussed on one contribute to self-contradiction, not acceptable.

Madhusudana says NO. There is no contradiction here.

The contradiction comes only if one consider as mutually exclusion. But if one defines the real and unreal correctly then there is no contradiction. This as I see forms the essence of discussion between Michael and Subbu.

These are definitions:1. Real is that which is not negated in three periods of time. And by this definition Brahman alone is real and nothing else. Brahman cannot be seen – agotram -says the scripture.

Hence whatever I perceive cannot come under Real.2. Unreal is that where there is never a time and place to have a locus for its existence. This should be actually called tuccham in stead of asat – unfortunately the scriptures use the asat for this also. This cannot be perceived too –since there is no locus of its existence as in vandhyaaputraH.3.

Now there is a third category which does not fall under 1 and 2 – that is the world – I see it therefore it is not UNREAL(This is also B.sutra 2-28 also). But it undergoes continuous modification therefore it not trikaala abhaaditam, that is it does not fulfill the definition 1 or reality. Hence it is not REAL. Hence it is neither real nor unreal. Hence it is anirvachaniiyam says Pancapaadika which Madhusudana justifies as valid definition for the world where there is no contradiction that dvaitins point out.

Since if it is not 1, it can be 2 or 3 and if it is not 3, it can be 1 or 2 and if it is not 1 and 2 then it can be 3. It is not unreal since it is experienced and it is not real since it can be sublated. Hence it is only transactionally real like our good old ring and bangle – vaacaarambhanam vikaaro naamadheyam – there are there – naamkevaaste – but what is there is really gold. Similarly what is there when I see the world is Brahman only in varieties of names and forms – That is what is involve in tat tvam asi statement too. Aitadaatmyam idam sarvam tat satyam – sa aatma – tat tvam asi – swetaketu. The essence of the whole universe (idam sarvam) is nothing but the very existence principle – that you are.

The discussion automatically leads to the second definition of mithyaa that Madhusudana presents.2. This definition comes from Shree Prakaashaatma Yati who is also known as VivaraNaacharya, who in further explaining Shankara adhyaasa bhaaShya justifies the mithyaa aspect of the world using the scriptural statement – neha naanaasti kinchana – there is nothing what so ever here. Here being used in terms world of perceptual presence now – that is as I am perceiving the world right now – the declaration is there is nothing what so ever real here since what is real is Brahman which cannot be perceived.

Since non existence thing cannot be perceived, therefore on the basis of the scriptural statement whatever is perceived is mithyaa only since it is neither real nor unreal. The definition for mithyaa is: pratipanna upaadhou traikaalikanishedhapratiyogitv am vaa mithyaatvam’ – in essence where three I am seeing now is not really there and what is there really I cannot see. I am seeing pot there but pot is really not there – what is there is only clay and not pot. Hence pot is mithyaa. I am seeing the world in front of me, there where I am seeing the world, it is not there since in this case what is there is only Brahman that I cannot see.

Hence the second definition is off shoot of the first but comes with scriptural justification for the mithyaa besides the vaachaarambhanam statement quoted above.Hence real or unreal question should be really real, unreal or mithyaa. And the world itself is mithyaa – this applies equally to waking world as well as the dream world. In that sense there is not much difference. Hence Shankara says in aatma bodha:Sakaale satyavat bhaati, prabodhe satyasat bhavet – it appears to be real in its time but when one is awaken its unreality is recognized. Here the term is satyavat – meaning it APPEARS to be real. The similar statement Shankara makes in DakshiNamurthi first sloka – vishvam darpaNa dRisyamaana nagarii tulyam nijaatargatam –exhaustive analysis has been provided for these slokas by Shree Subbuji and is stored in the file section of advaitin list.Hari Om!Sadananda.

Was mentioned in a recent indie game thread and since I had specific questions, I thought I would start a thread that I will happily let die on the vine if there is no further interest as I prefer not to clutter things up with useless threads (OK, that is not entirely true.)I am into my second month of gameplay, have walked forever and only come up with a cave and no other settlements. The settlement I started near was a vagabond village with a single mud hut.

The vagabonds quickly moved on and I have not seen one since my first days in the settlement.I cannot trade to get a shovel. I need tying materials.

I need to make bandages. I realize I have time before winter, so I will continue to search out other travellers. The couple of times I have come across wandering woodsmen or traders, I zoom in to that area, and cannot find the bastards in amongst the trees. I walk all over and they must be hiding.It has become a bit frustrating. Right now I am poisoned because I accidently ate some spoiled reindeer meat (which by the way has kept an awfully long time as compared to fish or bird and I have done nothing to preserve it. It is sitting outside my shelter in the weather and everything). I feel like I am either missing something or just got a bad starting point.Any ideas from you successful survivalists?

Where are you? Inland is balanced, Archipelago has a lot of settlements and advanced technology, and Northern has good hunting.Note that if you run across the map it will give you an option to change campaigns and go to another region entirely with the same character!Fox traps and javelins are pretty good trading fodder as they just need labor, an axe, and a fire for javelins.When you do get a shovel you’re going to have fun. You take zero damage from NON-spiked pit traps so you can walk across them all day. When I am in NJ territory, I dig pits so I can sleep safely. Some maps are just crappy. Sometimes you can start a game and have 20 villages in a small radius and sometimes I can have nothing around at all.

The “northern” maps kinda suck, since the tribal villages don’t have shops (or at least I haven’t found one yet). Don’t be too afraid to just tear down and try to find a new location. If you can’t find cloth/hides I’m assuming your area must not have much in the way of game either.When you’re out looking for villages, if it’s daytime and you have decent climbing skill, climb trees on the zoomed out map every once in a while to get a good 360° view of the surroundings.

Also head up hills and mountains to get the same effect w/o climbing.If you zoom into an area and can’t find what you’re looking for (happens to me a lot too), remember to always hide right away if it’s an animal, then try one of two things. Wander out in a spiral (pay attention to and hide again if you become unhidden), or climb a tree to see around you if you’re in a dense forest.If I run into any vagabonds or hunters I usually kill them and take their stuff. I haven’t noticed any ill effects.Don’t worry, if you started in spring or summer then you still have tons of time to get on your feet before winter hits.

Now if anybody has actually been successful at trapping I’d love to hear how, heh:). Lucidvizion:If I run into any vagabonds or hunters I usually kill them and take their stuff. I haven’t noticed any ill effects.I know if you ‘accidentally’ kill them with traps it’s okay.However I think you will be a murderer if you just kill them. You can supposedly talk to them and tell them to GET LOST.

Then you can kill the trespassers.As for traps, I just dig pits and set traps right next to zoom in point (remembering orientation). Then while wandering around I’ll come back to see little critters caught.My question: What the HECK counts as an arrow shaft? Lucidvizion:Some maps are just crappy. Sometimes you can start a game and have 20 villages in a small radius and sometimes I can have nothing around at all. The “northern” maps kinda suck, since the tribal villages don’t have shops (or at least I haven’t found one yet). Don’t be too afraid to just tear down and try to find a new location.

If you can’t find cloth/hides I’m assuming your area must not have much in the way of game either.When you’re out looking for villages, if it’s daytime and you have decent climbing skill, climb trees on the zoomed out map every once in a while to get a good 360° view of the surroundings. Also head up hills and mountains to get the same effect w/o climbing.If you zoom into an area and can’t find what you’re looking for (happens to me a lot too), remember to always hide right away if it’s an animal, then try one of two things. Wander out in a spiral (pay attention to and hide again if you become unhidden), or climb a tree to see around you if you’re in a dense forest.If I run into any vagabonds or hunters I usually kill them and take their stuff. I haven’t noticed any ill effects.Don’t worry, if you started in spring or summer then you still have tons of time to get on your feet before winter hits. Now if anybody has actually been successful at trapping I’d love to hear how, heh:)Thanks for the tips. Some of those I figured out.Are you saying you have found hides and/or closed or just that you have killed game and tanned them? There is a decent amount of game, but after a run-in with the reindeer, I have been afraid to try anything larger or even equal to that.

His 160 cuts of meat served me well, thoough.I did start in Spring, so I should have plenty of time. I also made some mittens, so that is something.Good game, I just need to keep at it and uncover more stuff.

When I did the 10 day demo, I started near a settlement with real citizens who had stuffto trade. Once I find one of those, I will set up a new camp. Maybe build me a place in which to setlle down. Tyjenks:Are you saying you have found hides and/or closed or just that you have killed game and tanned them?

There is a decent amount of game, but after a run-in with the reindeer, I have been afraid to try anything larger or even equal to that. His 160 cuts of meat served me well, thoough.By killing game and tanning the skins. I know what you mean about the reindeer, they can be one of the meanest animals in the game.

I have better luck fighting Elk and Stag, which are bigger, but don’t hurt as much. And of course last night I find two settlements. One sold only assorted meats and fisheys. The other sold nothing. The healer was able to teach me my two new rituals. Hard to tell what effect those have, but really the only one I have used is for the safe night’s sleep.Nothing really new has occured.

I just need to start killing bigger animals. All those hides and leathers equal to less than one pound each sure came together to make what, I would imagine, is an ugly pair of mittens.EDIT: Also, I had no idea until last night that you could do the tree climbing thing. The mountains an hills I used for looking around, but aside from that, I was wandering around uncovering every 3 X 3 squarethat was taking more time than it should.:). Usedpilot:For those who don’t mind cheating to resume a character you spent a lot of time with (who may happen to eventually die from a badger bite), you can “save” the game by copying the folder of your character’s name somewhere else, and then paste it after you die to resume from where you were when you copied.Heresy!I really like URW, but I guess save-cheating feels even more destructive of the purpose than in other roguelikes. It’s a survival game, and what makes it engaging is that surviving is really freaking hard. If you undo your death in order to make it easier to survive well, you kind of don’t leave a whole lot of game, if you see what I mean. I mean, sure, you can do some building and some making stuff and whatnot but if you’re not constantly facing the risk of death, it would feel kind of empty.

Just my opinion, of course.